terça-feira, 3 de março de 2015

Rezar em Silêncio ou Tocar os "Sinos Turcos" e ir pra Guerra?


Hoje, eu li com horror que os militantes do grupo  islâmico ISIS enganaram uma mãe para que ela comesse o próprio filho, morto por este terroristas satânicos.

Hoje também eu vi um vídeo em que o Papa Francisco pediu que todos na praça São Pedro "rezassem em silêncio" pelos cristãos mortos e perseguidos pelo ISIS.

Mas não seria melhor para estes cristãos se a Igreja tocasse os "Sinos Turcos" e agisse em defesa deles, como bem lembrou padre George Rutler?

Hoje ainda eu li sobre um discurso de Benjamin Netanyahu, primeiro-ministro de Israel.  Ele disse que "ninguém faz alianças com fracos". Esta frase me lembrou o dito romano: "Se quer paz, se prepare para a guerra".

A Igreja está fraca e parece que quer permanecer assim.

São João Capistrano (imagem acima) não deve estar gostando nada da "reza em silêncio".

Leiam texto do padre Rutler.

Rezemos em voz alta e peçamos que a Igreja entenda que só sendo forte será respeitada.


(Agradeço a terrível história da mãe e a frase de Netanyahu ao site Weasel Zippers e o texto de  Rutler ao site New Advent)

domingo, 1 de março de 2015

Se Igreja mudar Definição de Família, como Explicar Cristo e a História da Igreja ?


Será só um capricho da Igreja em não mudar a definição de família? O Cardeal Pell mostra que não, disso depende a própria relação da Igreja com Cristo e a presença da Igreja na história humana.

Vejamos o curto, mas bem potente texto do Cardeal Pell publicado no site The Catholic Thing, o texto se chama What About Henry VIII? (imagem acima).




What about Henry VIII?



Interestingly, Jesus’ hard teaching that “what therefore God has joined together, let no man put asunder” (Mt 19:6) follows not long after his insistence to Peter on the necessity of forgiveness (see Mt 18:21–35).
It is true that Jesus did not condemn the adulterous woman who was threatened with death by stoning, but he did not tell her to keep up her good work, to continue unchanged in her ways. He told her to sin no more (see Jn 8:1–11).
One insurmountable barrier for those advocating a new doctrinal and pastoral discipline for the reception of Holy Communion is the almost complete unanimity of two thousand years of Catholic history on this point. It is true that the Orthodox have a long-standing but different tradition, forced on them originally by their Byzantine emperors, but this has never been the Catholic practice.
One might claim that the penitential disciplines in the early centuries before the Council of Nicaea were too fierce as they argued whether those guilty of murder, adultery, or apostasy could be reconciled by the Church to their local communities only once—or not at all. They always acknowledged that God could forgive, even when the Church’s ability to readmit sinners to the community was limited. 
Such severity was the norm at a time when the Church was expanding in numbers, despite persecution. It can no more be ignored than the teachings of the Council of Trent or those of Saint John Paul II or Pope Benedict XVI on marriage can be ignored. Were the decisions that followed Henry VIII’s divorce totally unnecessary?




sábado, 28 de fevereiro de 2015

Padre Demitido por usar Palavrão contra Cardeal Burke


Se tem uma coisa que o mundo está ficando com toda certeza é mais efeminado. O politcamente correto, o avanço do feminismo, da cultura gay e do pacifismo extremo todos vão na mesma direção: tornar o homem mais feminino.

O Cardeal Burke discutiu este problema recentemente.

Aí, um padre canadense, porta-voz da Congregação de São Basílio, chamado Timothy Scott, ficou furioso (uma atitude que também as mulheres conseguem ficar) e soltou um palavrão contra o Cardeal Burke no twitter (acima).

Ele quer que o Cardeal Burke STFU (acrônimo para shut the fuck up), que pode ser traduzido por: "Cala a Boca Porra".

Péssimo para ser dito por qualquer pessoa e quando se é padre, então.

Com a reação dos católicos leigos conservadores, o padre Timothy foi demitido do cargo de porta-voz.

Vemos mais uma vez que a Igreja depende de todos nós. Nós leigos somos parte muito importante da luta pela Salvação da Igreja, que é também a nossa Salvação. Na Bíblia, há muitos casos de leigos ou não judeus agindo em defesa de Deus, como a prostituta de Jericó, ou o soldado romano que tem maior fé que todos de Israel.

E temos que continuar a luta, mesmo no caso do padre Timothy.

Kathy Schiffer informa que ele ainda mantém outros cargos importantes.

Outro dado interessante que Kathy conta é que o padre Timothy é da mesma congregação do padre Thomas Rosica, que eu falei aqui no blog que anda ameaçando um blogueiro canadense. A C.S.B tem algum problema sério de formação.

Por último, rezemos pelo Cardeal Burke. Ele precisa de proteção divina.


(Agradeço a informação da demissão de Timothy ao site New Advent)

quinta-feira, 26 de fevereiro de 2015

Aviso aos Amigos do Blog.

Caríssimos, depois que eu publiquei meu artigo sobre Islã no Journal Law & Justice, eu prometi a quem se interessasse que iria mandar o artigo, bastava me enviar o email.

O editor ficou de me enviar meu artigo, mas até agora não recebi.

Pedi a um amigo que mora em Londres que visse nas bibliotecas do Reino Unido, e ele me respondeu hoje que as bibliotecas não receberam nem o volume 172, nem 173 do journal.

Meu paper foi publicado no volume 173.

Então, aguardem mais um pouco que irei enviar, assim que eu tiver acesso.

Não quero enviar a versão que tenho, pois vocês podem querer citar academicamente e não poderão fazê-lo pois não possuem a versão  que foi publicada com seus detalhes de página etc.

Bom, pelo menos vocês podem ler o abstract do texto que o site do Law & Justice disponibiliza:

Trying to Catch the Deluge: Shari'ah, Terrorism and Religious Freedom (Carneiro, Pedro Erik) 


Islamic countries have their own declarations of human rights and conventions on terrorism. These highlight the fact that that their reasoning is commanded by Shari'ah. In Shari'ah, 'Allah is the goal, the Prophet is the model, the Quran is the constitution'. Thus, the best place to search for roots of understanding between Islamic and International law regarding religious liberty and terrorism is the Quran. However, scholars tend to ignore theology in discussing whether there can be reconciliation between the two systems and this affects their conclusions. This paper raises the question of whether the love of God and love of neighbour can be the roots for understanding. First, the theist position is taken in the debate as to whether a 'jus cogens' could transcend God. Then, the stand taken by the Quran is considered in respect of 'People of the Book', 'jihad', and 'apostasy'. These three controversial issues are then set against the single idea of loving the enemy. The paper concludes that the Quran is too contradictory to provide a clear position. Nevertheless, it is too problematic to avoid the Quran. Such avoidance could be the main reason why Westem scholars find deaf ears in the Islamic world. The paper concludes that the very formation of social science courses needs to be changed so as to include deeper analysis of revealed and natural theologies.

Será que há uma Gangue de Cardeais Ladrões dentro do Vaticano?


Que história!! Vejam esta agora.

Antes do Sínodo da Família do ano passado, 5 cardeais escreveram um livro em defesa da família e do casamento, reforçando a Doutrina da Igreja. O livro se chama Remaining in the Truth of the Christ: Marriage and Communion in the Catholic Church.

O livro fez e faz enorme sucesso, vai ser traduzido para diversas línguas, inclusive para o português.

Os organizadores e autores do livro, percebendo o enorme sucesso do livro, e a importância dele para o Sínodo, resolveram acelerar a tradução para o italiano e usando o correio da Itália, enviaram uma cópia do livro para as caixas de correio de todos os bispos, que iam participar do Sínodo. Estas caixas de correio dos bispos foram feitas pelo Correio do Vaticano (Vatican Post) e eram individuais, uma para cada bispo, e ficavam próximas ao Salão onde ocorreria o Sínodo. 

Os livros tinham destinatário individual, cada bispo.

Acontece que alguém ou uma gangue roubou o livro das caixas de correio dos bispos. Isto mesmo, alguém violou a correspondência individual, um crime em qualquer país do mundo. Eles não queriam que os bispos lessem o livro!!!! 

É o que o site alemão, chamado Kathnet, que se dedica aos assuntos do Vaticano, reporta. O site alemão acusa o Cardeal Baldisseri, secretário do Sínodo, pelo roubo.

O Padre Z também relata esta história e, ao que parece, já sabia que tinha ocorrido este roubo.

Vejamos o que o Padre Z diz:

I have wanted to write about this for soooooo long now.


Here is something of the story that you don’t know, because at the time it couldn’t be told.
The people who crafted the Five Cardinals Book™ wanted to make sure that Synod members had copies, at least in English or Italian, as the Synod was starting up.  Therefore, they sent copies to every member of the Synod (quite a few) through the Italian post to each member’s personal mailbox near the Synod Hall which was set up individually by the Vatican Post.  Remember, Vatican Post is the postal service of a sovereign nation that has laws.  The Book was sent in individually addressed and franked envelopes.  They weren’t just envelopes with someone’s name on them shoved into the slots by whomever.  They were properly sent postal items.
When the organizers of the Synod realized what had been sent to the members of the Synod, someone removed all the envelopes from the members’ mail boxes!
That’s called theft.   That’s called illegal.   They stole people’s mail.  Please correct me if I am wrong, but isn’t that a crime in, I think, every country?   The Vatican City State… that’s a country… isn’t it.
That’s how frightening the Book is to those who want to overturn the Church’s practice and, therefore, teaching.
The Kathnet piece, by  Manfred Ferrari, indicates that the heist was ordered by Card. Baldisseri, who is the head of the office of the Synod of Bishops.
At the end of the piece, Ferrari adds:
[…]
“This episode took place in the Vatican and not in the Kremlin. As I told it to a friend who, in those days, traveled back to Africa, he smiled at me mildly and said, “Manfred, what’s bothering you. Here in South Sudan things aren’t any better … “
There were inquiries made about what happened to the Book.  Only a few of the Synod participants out of the some 200 received their copies… before they were boosted.  The Governor of the Vatican City State would have a legal obligation to look into the situation.  No?
I cannot underscore enough how important the Five Cardinals Book™ was during the Synod.  It is still important.  It is still under attack.  
---
Caros, as coisas no Vaticano estão ficando muito sinistras. Estão ficando cada dia mais escuras, sombrias, nebulosas, pecaminoso e diabólicas.

Parece coisa de gangue. Como pergunta o Padre Z, ninguém vai investigar isso?

Quem roubou os livros é completamente estúpido em pensar que isto não seria notado.

O Espírito Santo e São Miguel Arcanjo já trabalharam muito na defesa da Igreja, e o momento não é de descanso para eles.

Até o que disse Hilaire Belloc sobre a Igreja parece brincadeira, diante de fatos tão assustadores.

Belloc disse:

The Catholic Church is an institution I am bound to hold divine — but for unbelievers a proof of its divinity might be found in the fact that no merely human institution conducted with such knavish imbecility would have lasted a fortnight.

Traduzo:

A Igreja Católica é uma instituição que eu considero divina - mas para um descrente a prova de sua divindade pode ser encontrada no fato de que nenhuma instituição administrada de forma tão imbecil sobreviveria duas semanas.

Por que eles têm tanto medo de um livro?

Rezemos pela Igreja. Peçamos a Deus e Nossa Senhora pela intervenção dos seus anjos e santos.


(Agradeço a indicação do texto do Padre Z ao site The American Catholic)

quarta-feira, 25 de fevereiro de 2015

Católicos Ucranianos Sacrificados no Altar do Ecumenismo do Papa Francisco.


Os Católicos da Ucrânia, cerca de 4 milhões de pessoas em um país de 44 milhões de habitantes, estão muito "furiosos" com as declarações do Papa Francisco, sobre o conflito que ocorre lá desde o ano passado.

Para eles, parece que o Papa aceita a intervenção russa e a própria anexação da Criméia pela Rússia que já completou um ano.

O Papa acusado de praticar o "ecumenismo politicamente correto" que só favorece a Rússia, abandonando os católicos e a própria Ucrânia, "sacrificando os católicos no altar para  bem do relacionamento com a Igreja da Rússia".

Eu achei mais revelador uma frase do Papa sobre as palavras "vitória" e "derrota", acho que essa frase revela mais do que um "ecumenismo politcamente correto"

Isto tudo foi relatado por dois experientes e muito respeitados jornalistas sobre o que acontece no Vaticano: o americano John Allen Jr.  e o italiano Sandro Magister.

O texto do Magister é mais recente, mas apenas reforça o que diz mais claramente Allen Jr.

Vejam parte do texto de Allen Jr, publicado no site Crux Now.

Is the pope’s view of Ukraine blurred by 'ecumenical correctness'?

By John Allen Jr.

Whenever a conflict breaks out in some corner of the world, popes generally strive to remain neutral so they can act as potential healers and mediators. On the other hand, popes also are expected to have the back of their own flock if they’re the ones under fire.
Striking the right balance between neutrality and loyalty can be tricky, as Francis’ recent rhetoric on Ukraine illustrates.
Many Ukrainian Catholics believe the pontiff went too far this week in an effort to prove to Russia, and especially the Russian Orthodox Church, that he doesn’t want to pick a fight. On Wednesday, Francis described the current violence in eastern Ukraine as “fratricidal,” when most Ukrainians would say it’s actually the product of foreign aggression by Moscow.
The result, many Ukrainians feel, is that Francis (perhaps inadvertently) threw their country under the bus for the sake of being “ecumenically correct,” meaning not irritating the Russian Orthodox.
“It shows the ignorance of the pope about the situation in Ukraine,” said Anatolij Babynskyj, editor of a prominent Greek Catholic journal, who blamed “pro-Russian forces at the Vatican” for distorting the pope’s view.
By way of background, Ukraine is a nation of 44 million people, roughly 3 to 5 million of whom belong to the Greek Catholic Church, which follows Orthodox rituals and spirituality, but is in full communion with Rome. Political life in the country tends to be defined by one’s attitudes toward Russia, with Catholics pre-eminent in the quest for an autonomous Ukraine not subservient to Moscow.
During the Soviet era, no Church produced more martyrs in percentage terms or suffered more vicious crackdowns. In light of that history, Greek Catholics become understandably nervous anytime they see Russian forces crossing their borders, or insurgents armed and supported by Moscow trying to slice off pieces of Ukrainian territory.
Right now, eastern Ukraine is once again an active combat zone, after pro-Russian rebels shelved a four-month truce and launched a new offensive. According to the United Nations, indiscriminate shelling has killed at least 224 civilians in the past three weeks, raising the overall death toll to 5,358 people since last April.
Speaking off-the-cuff, Pope Francis said that when he hears the words “victory” or “defeat,” he feels great pain and sadness.

“They are not the right words,” he said. “The only right word is peace. This is the only right word.”
“I think of you, Ukrainian brothers and sisters, this is a war between Christians,” he said. Calling the conflict a scandal, he pointed out that all those involved have the same baptism.
Francis urged prayer, saying “prayer is our protest before God in times of war.”
To Ukrainian Catholic ears, to be frank, all that sounded uncomfortably like appeasement.
To begin, the term “fratricidal” seems to imply that what’s underway is an internal conflict among Ukrainians. In reality, most Ukrainians would say it’s an act of external hostility. Not only is Moscow arming and supporting the rebels, but Russian troops and tanks have been spotted in eastern Ukraine on multiple occasions.
Most other observers frame the conflict in terms of Russia’s role. For instance, NATO’s deputy secretary general Alexander Vershbow said in a speech at the Nobel Institute in Oslo this week that “Russia’s aggression against Ukraine is not an isolated incident,” but rather a “game-changer in European security.”
If NATO can diagnose the situation accurately, some Ukrainian Catholics wonder, why can’t the pope?
Further, the pontiff’s mournful references to victory and defeat suggest a sort of “pox on both your houses” stance, as if the rights and wrongs of the conflict don’t really matter. That stab at even-handedness also rankles for many Ukrainians, who believe that in this instance, there really is an objectively guilty party (i.e., Russia) and a victim (i.e., Ukraine.)
The clincher for many Ukrainians is that Patriarch Kirill of Moscow and All Russia, head of the Russian Orthodox Church, publicly thanked Francis for the Vatican’s “balanced approach” on Wednesday and in the same breath took a shot at the Greek Catholics, accusing them of harboring a “nationalistic” and “Russophobic” line.
The Russian Orthodox Church has always claimed Ukraine as part of its “canonical territory,” and resents the Catholic toehold in the country. It would love nothing more than to drive a wedge between Rome and the Greek Catholic Church, and apparently sees the present crisis as an opportunity to do just that.
Granted, Francis faces strong pressures not to appear biased.
In Ukraine, as elsewhere, he wants to be a peacemaker, and staying above the fray in terms of the political and diplomatic tit-for-tat is the price of admission. In addition, he’s made ecumenism a cornerstone of his papacy, and he and many of his aides are reluctant to do or say anything that would set back relations with the Russian Orthodox.
Of the roughly 225 million Orthodox Christians in the world, about 165 million are members of the Russian Orthodox Church. As a result, if the pope wants to move the ball in terms of Catholic/Orthodox relations, he simply can’t afford to ignore Moscow.
Yet at the same time, Francis has a tough and resilient Catholic community in Ukraine that’s paid in blood over the centuries for its loyalty to Rome, and that once again today finds itself in harm’s way.

---
Rezemos pelos Católicos da Ucrânia. Povo sofrido.

(Agradeço os textos ao site The American Catholic)

terça-feira, 24 de fevereiro de 2015

750 anos de Dante Alighieri e Raimundo Lúlio com Cardeal Burke.


Um colocou Maomé no inferno (oitavo círculo) como herege, eu já falei disso aqui no blog. O outro recebeu visões de Cristo mandando ele pregar o cristianismo para os muçulmanos, e acabou sendo morto por eles.

Hoje, Dante Alligheri não conseguiria publicar nada, pois seria muito ofensivo e o Beato Ramon Llull (Raimundo Lúlio) seria expulso da Igreja, como perturbado moralmente.

Este ano comemora-se 750 anos de nascimento de Dante e também 750 anos que Ramon Llull decidiu aprender árabe para pregar para os muçulmanos e seguir o que Cristo pedia.

Outro dia, nosso colega comentarista do blog Nik recomendou o livro acima. Já comprei. No Brasil, fiquei sabendo agora, existe o Instituto de Filosofia e Ciência Raimundo Lúlio.

Também vi que Raimundo Lúlio estará junto das comemorações dos 750 anos de nascimento de Dante.

Ocorrerá uma Conferência em Roma nos dias 28 e 29 de Maio para celebrar Dante e Lúlio. Junto desta conferência ocorrerá uma peregrinação para locais sagrados da Itália, pedindo a conversão dos muçulmanos e judeus. Acho que o Papa Francisco, politicamente correto como é, jamais pediria a conversão dos muçulmanos e judeus.

A Conferência contará com a presença do Cardeal Raymond Burke.

Vejam o professor Edmund Mazza explicando a Conferência e falando especialmente de Raimundo Lúlio no site Aleteia.

Edmund Mazza is a professor in the Department of History and Political Science at Azusa Pacific University. Mazza's principal fields are Medieval Europe, Ancient History, Church History and Russian History. His most recent article, "Not Everybody Loves Raymond (or Regensberg)," was published in the Fellowship of Catholic Scholars Quarterly. His travel and research has taken him to such varied places as New York, Paris, Lourdes, Rome, Venice, Padua, Florence, Barcelona, Kuala Lumpur, and Mexico City.

Mazza spoke with Aleteia about the pilgrimage, planned for May.


This year marks the 750th anniversary of the birth of Dante. I understand you are planning to celebrate that in a special way.

We have organized a conference in Rome, May 28-29, and we plan to have Cardinal Raymond Burke and other speakers about Dante from the US and abroad, who will commemorate him. Dante is the founder, in a sense of the Italian language, at least in terms of literature. He took his dialect and used that … when it was customary to use Latin. He created what came to be one of the greatest poems of all time, an epic poem that came to be called The Divine Comedy. Dante as a character in the poem traveled through hell, purgatory and heaven. As Dante is a pilgrim in that sense we are making a pilgrimage in addition to the conference. It will be from May 21-30.

What's the pilgrimage route. You’re not planning to lead people through hell, are you?

We’re going to Turin for the special exposition of the Holy Shroud, which Christians believe to be the actual shroud in which the body of Christ was wrapped. There’s a whole host of scientific data verifying that it is the actual burial shroud. The shroud is displayed only on rare occasions, and this year is going to be one of those times.

Also, it’s a very pilgrim, penitential thing to do, to turn to our Lord.

In addition to honoring Dante, the conference is also honoring a lesser-known figure, Blessed Ramon Llull, who also 750 years ago this year, was called to preach to Muslims and Jews, and he did that in a very special way. Originally, he was a troubadour and a knight in arms. Dante also had military experience and wrote love poetry, usually of a courtly nature. Courtly love deals with the kind of love as, for example, between Lancelot and Guinevere. It ordinarily has certain adulterous connotations to it. In the case of Ramon Lllull, he had a series of visions of Christ crucified, and based on those visions he decided to give his live over to writing love verses of a different sort. To bring Muslims and Jews to fullness of the light, which is Christ. He’d go on to write hundreds of different works along those lines. He started out by making a pilgrimage through the shrines of Spain.

So to honor both Dante and Lllull we are inviting people to become pilgrims and start out with a vision of Christ crucified, namely, the Shroud of Turin, which may be an exact image of the crucifixion. We invite them to offer their sufferings up for the conversion of Muslims and Jews because, as much as the relations between Muslims and Jews and Christians is in the news these days it’s not often that one hears about offering penance for the conversion of others. We hear things more of a political nature, but of course we know that the spiritual is superior to the political


It’s an interesting yoking of the two figures. How did you discover Llull?

I wrote my dissertation on another Ramon—Raymond of Penafort, who was a Dominican, and therefore a preacher, but in an unprecedented way, in the history of the Church, set out trying to convert the Jews and Muslims in medieval Spain. He asked Thomas Aquinas to write the Summa Contra Gentiles, which would offer philosophical support for believing in the Gospel and rejecting things that fall short of the Gospel. So he established schools for friars to learn Arabic and Hebrew so they might use the books that Muslims and Jews consider holy, to point to the fact that Jesus is the Messiah. It was a bit of a polemical approach to interreligious dialogue. For example, in 1263 there was a famous debate between a Dominican friar who was a convert from Judaism, and an eminent rabbi of the day, Moses Maimonides, and in 1263 in Barcelona, the king orchestrated the debate between the Jew and the friar as to whether or not Christ was the messiah. The Dominican used the Talmud to prove that he is. It was around this time that Lllull experienced his conversion, and it was probably about 750 years ago this year that he met with Raymond of Penafort because Llull had done his penance and was about to embark on his journey to convert the infidel, and he wanted to take the traditional route, which would have been to go to the University of Paris and study theology and be able to write scholarly works and address scholarly minds.

Penafort urged Llull to stay in his home of Mallorca, the island off the coast of Spain… So he acquired a Muslim slave to teach him Arabic...and he made a couple of trips to North Africa, where he tried to preach to crowds about Christ. The second time, in 1315, he found himself in front of an angry mob, almost to the point of beating to death and he died, according to tradition, on his way home to Europe. He was beatified in 1847. The Church considers him a martyr, both as a red martyr and a white martyr, devoting his life for the sake of others.

What will Cardinal Burke’s role be in this pilgrimage?

In addition to the fact that his name is Raymond—and Raymond Lllull is his namesake—Cardinal Burke is now cardinal-patron of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta. The title of our conference is Conversion and Coexistence. When we look at Lllull and Dante we’re looking at personal conversions. We’re looking at the conversions of others. And there’s the issue of "How does one get along with one another?" This year happens to be the 450th anniversary of the great siege of the Island of Malta by the Turks. During the Renaissance the Ottoman Turks were a tremendous threat to the survival of Christian Europe. And one of occasion was the great siege of Malta in 1565. The island was controlled by the Knights of Malta, whose name at the time was the Knights Hospitallers, or the Knights of St. John of the Hospital. They started out as what we would call a military-monastic order, that is, knights who fought in crusade to protect pilgrims traveling to the holy Land, or to try to take back the Holy Land from the Muslims who were controlling it politically. So these were men trained in military tactics, but they led a monastic life. they were celibate, they were supposed to be poor, they followed the head of the order in obedience, they engaged in various pious practices, fasting and personal devotions.


(Agradeço a entrevista de Mazza ao site Big Pulpit)

segunda-feira, 23 de fevereiro de 2015

Cristo e números 12 e 7. Israel e Igreja Católica, dois Cestos de Pão.



Uma pausa com a crise no Vaticano (em diversos aspectos) e com o terrorismo islâmico, para um pouco de teologia.

Li um texto muito interessante do teólogo Taylor Marshall sobre a seguinte passagem da Bíblia (Marcos 8-19-20):

Cristo pergunta aos discípulos:
Quando eu parti os cinco pães entre os cinco mil, quantos cestos recolhestes cheios de pedaços? Responderam-lhe: Doze.
E quando eu parti os sete pães entre os quatro mil homens, quantos cestos de pedaços levantastes? Sete, responderam-lhe.
Jesus disse-lhes: Como é que ainda não entendeis?...

Que intrigante, Cristo espera que os discípulos entendam a importância destes números.

O que significa alimentar 12 cestas e depois 7 cestas?

Dr. Marshall explica (traduzo em azul):

A chave interpretativa ou segredo aqui é a história anterior de Cristo referindo-se a "pão" reservado apenas para os filhos de Israel (São Marcos 7: 24-30). A mulher gentil-siro-fenícia, em seguida, diz: "Sim, Senhor, mas também os cachorrinhos debaixo da mesa, comem as migalhas dos filhos." 

Cristo ama esta resposta! Ele só queria alguém que conseguisse entender o significado disso. Os apóstolos não conseguiram, mas a mulher sim.

Então, o pão e cestas de sobra refere-se a pão para a nação de Israel e, em seguida, o pão para os gentios entre os judeus.

O número 12 quase sempre se refere às 12 tribos de Israel. É o número nacional do Povo de Deus.

O número 7 pode se referir a sábado (sétimo dia), a santidade, ou conclusão. É também o número do universo desde que o sétimo dia trouxe a conclusão e paz para o ato criador de Deus. 

O número 70 (7 x 10 = 70) é freqüentemente usado pelos judeus para descrever a plenitude universal (católica) dos gentios. Dada a presença da mulher siro-fenícia, o número 7 representa aqui as sete nações dos gentios que ocupavam a Terra Prometida durante o tempo de Moisés (Deuteronômio 7: 1 para a lista). A Terra Prometida foi ocupada pelos 12 tribos de Israel, e os concorrentes 7 nações dos gentios.

Veja o que isto significa na história da redenção:

Antiga Aliança: Cristo primeiro alimenta pessoas e produz os 12 cestas. Isto é, Deus em primeiro lugar institui o Povo de Israel (12 tribos) no Antigo Testamento.

Nova Aliança: Cristo depois (literalmente "depois de três dias" ver Marcos 8: 2) alimenta pessoas e produz os sete cestos. Este é o Deus que institui a Igreja Católica - a plenitude dos gentios (7 nações) em aliança com Deus.

Então é assim que funciona. Cristo está insistindo para que seus apóstolos entendam e vejam que os gentios vão ser levados para a cesta "depois de três dias" (Marcos 8: 2). 

---
Muito interessante, não?

Judeus e Igreja Católica, dois cestos de pão.